Comments on: “there are endless pages in the book. the tree keeps growing.” http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2005/12/18/there-are-endless-pages-in-the-book-the-tree-keeps-growing/ when faith like a child isn't enough Sat, 11 Oct 2008 09:05:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: Emily http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2005/12/18/there-are-endless-pages-in-the-book-the-tree-keeps-growing/#comment-131 Mon, 17 Apr 2006 06:15:28 +0000 http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2005/12/18/there-are-endless-pages-in-the-book-the-tree-keeps-growing/#comment-131 Wow, I actually wasn't sure that I could ever come across another female Christian who felt the same way about how the patriarchal viewpoints were constanting ebbing away at our, as you say, portrait of humanity and divinity etc. For years I have questioned but it was always met with the same reply of "God made man to rule over his household and women are meant to be his companion, to submit to him etc." Now I don't think everything they say when you get nit-picky about it is wrong, but it always seems like every time this discusion is breached women come out second best, and if you are a woman and don't agree then you have somehow sinned against God's natural order by trying to place yourself on the same ground as men. Anyway, it's late so this might not make complete sense. Thanks for the voice. Wow, I actually wasn’t sure that I could ever come across another female Christian who felt the same way about how the patriarchal viewpoints were constanting ebbing away at our, as you say, portrait of humanity and divinity etc.

For years I have questioned but it was always met with the same reply of “God made man to rule over his household and women are meant to be his companion, to submit to him etc.” Now I don’t think everything they say when you get nit-picky about it is wrong, but it always seems like every time this discusion is breached women come out second best, and if you are a woman and don’t agree then you have somehow sinned against God’s natural order by trying to place yourself on the same ground as men.

Anyway, it’s late so this might not make complete sense. Thanks for the voice.

]]> by: pd http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2005/12/18/there-are-endless-pages-in-the-book-the-tree-keeps-growing/#comment-12 Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:04:00 +0000 http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2005/12/18/there-are-endless-pages-in-the-book-the-tree-keeps-growing/#comment-12 i sat and thought about how to comment, but then i realized that no matter how much i say, "i agree, but..." or "the andros of scripture is due to a male-dominated culture during the writing and the lack of a good neuter" it doesn't really make a difference. i am not a female. i can't, and probably never will, understand the impact of masculine centric language. however, i do believe with everything that i am that: a) God is beyond sex, b) that sexuality is inherently good, c) Jesus valued women very highly (the woman at the well- first one Jesus revealed his divinity to, first one to share that discovery and so therefore the first missionary), and d) that a proper reading of scripture supports this. i sat and thought about how to comment, but then i realized that no matter how much i say, “i agree, but…” or “the andros of scripture is due to a male-dominated culture during the writing and the lack of a good neuter” it doesn’t really make a difference. i am not a female. i can’t, and probably never will, understand the impact of masculine centric language. however, i do believe with everything that i am that:
a) God is beyond sex,
b) that sexuality is inherently good,
c) Jesus valued women very highly (the woman at the well- first one Jesus revealed his divinity to, first one to share that discovery and so therefore the first missionary), and
d) that a proper reading of scripture supports this.

]]> by: Jenny http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2005/12/18/there-are-endless-pages-in-the-book-the-tree-keeps-growing/#comment-11 Sun, 25 Dec 2005 00:14:00 +0000 http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2005/12/18/there-are-endless-pages-in-the-book-the-tree-keeps-growing/#comment-11 That certainly is an interesting observation. Though I don't think Ramshaw would be particularly interested in focussing on the "shameful" tree. The tree I see intermingled with the cross is the tree of life. Ramshaw cites artwork (renaissance era, I believe) where the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil are both depicted but, to the viewer, it is difficult to determine which is which. That certainly is an interesting observation. Though I don’t think Ramshaw would be particularly interested in focussing on the “shameful” tree. The tree I see intermingled with the cross is the tree of life.

Ramshaw cites artwork (renaissance era, I believe) where the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil are both depicted but, to the viewer, it is difficult to determine which is which.

]]> by: Michael L. Moore http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2005/12/18/there-are-endless-pages-in-the-book-the-tree-keeps-growing/#comment-10 Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:09:00 +0000 http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2005/12/18/there-are-endless-pages-in-the-book-the-tree-keeps-growing/#comment-10 "She says that she needs both the cross, and the tree. I imagine the image of a great tree which, when you squint a little, reveals the axes of the cross within its trunk and branches." Your talk of trees in the Bible and of Ramshaw reminded me of Samuel Wesley's strong hymn from 1737, "Behold the Savior of mankind/ Nailed to the shameful tree" which received a very powerful American musical setting in M. Kyes's Crucifixion (1798. Norumbega Harmony sings it on their new CD, "Sweet Seraphic Fire," http://search.mysimon.com/search?pgtpid=4012&tag=srch.glnav&editionid=4&qt=sweet+seraphic+fire&nodeid=5 "The shameful tree" in typology was made from the wood of the tree in Eden Adam and Eve ate from; some of it was used in the building of Noah's ark; the Queen of Sheba, when she came to visit Solomon is pictured in the Hours of Catherine of Cleves crossing a creek on a bridge made from it; there are probably types I'm either forgetting or don't know about. In any case, it's as if the same tree grows up through the whole Bible--in folklore, at least--connecting Genesis with Revelation. A fascinating meditation. I don't know if it's more feminist or humanist, though! “She says that she needs both the cross, and the tree. I imagine the image of a great tree which, when you squint a little, reveals the axes of the cross within its trunk and branches.”

Your talk of trees in the Bible and of Ramshaw reminded me of Samuel Wesley’s strong hymn from 1737, “Behold the Savior of mankind/ Nailed to the shameful tree” which received a very powerful American musical setting in M. Kyes’s Crucifixion (1798. Norumbega Harmony sings it on their new CD, “Sweet Seraphic Fire,” http://search.mysimon.com/search?pgtpid=4012&tag=srch.glnav&editionid=4&qt=sweet+seraphic+fire&nodeid=5

“The shameful tree” in typology was made from the wood of the tree in Eden Adam and Eve ate from; some of it was used in the building of Noah’s ark; the Queen of Sheba, when she came to visit Solomon is pictured in the Hours of Catherine of Cleves crossing a creek on a bridge made from it; there are probably types I’m either forgetting or don’t know about. In any case, it’s as if the same tree grows up through the whole Bible–in folklore, at least–connecting Genesis with Revelation. A fascinating meditation. I don’t know if it’s more feminist or humanist, though!

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