Comments on: pastor as plagiarist http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/ when faith like a child isn't enough Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:57:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: Tim http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-233 Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:27:59 +0000 http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-233 I read your article and found it interesting. I preach and have used many ideas from other preachers...including Rick Warren as well as starting my sermons from scratch. King Solomon said tehre is nothing new under the sun. That includes ideas and sermons. I don't have an agenda... I'm after what my creator wants from me. I guess I feel that sometimes... I find that others have said it better than I have or can. I'm always learning how to say things better...and they have helped me. I'm not interested in being a carbon copy of these guys... I do want to help people connect with God and perhaps find something from the Bible that helps them. That's what the Bible is for... to help me live my life the way God created me to live. I used to be a very skeptical person when it came to the Bible. But as I set aside my prejudices and tried to be objective...I dug through history... reading skeptics as well as faith based authors...they helped me reach a conclusion. That there is a God and I can benefit from the Bible. I don't need some stupid, obnoxious 'faith based' shirt to express my faith... I don't need a shirt...I need to serve. By the way, I didn't get that idea from Rick Warren. I got that from Jesus. Thanks for the challenge to be original as I can. I'll try to do that. I read your article and found it interesting. I preach and have used many ideas from other preachers…including Rick Warren as well as starting my sermons from scratch. King Solomon said tehre is nothing new under the sun. That includes ideas and sermons. I don’t have an agenda… I’m after what my creator wants from me. I guess I feel that sometimes… I find that others have said it better than I have or can. I’m always learning how to say things better…and they have helped me. I’m not interested in being a carbon copy of these guys… I do want to help people connect with God and perhaps find something from the Bible that helps them. That’s what the Bible is for… to help me live my life the way God created me to live. I used to be a very skeptical person when it came to the Bible. But as I set aside my prejudices and tried to be objective…I dug through history… reading skeptics as well as faith based authors…they helped me reach a conclusion. That there is a God and I can benefit from the Bible. I don’t need some stupid, obnoxious ‘faith based’ shirt to express my faith… I don’t need a shirt…I need to serve. By the way, I didn’t get that idea from Rick Warren. I got that from Jesus. Thanks for the challenge to be original as I can. I’ll try to do that.

]]> by: Zeke http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-198 Sat, 03 Jun 2006 04:59:27 +0000 http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-198 Nah, I think you're aiight. Nah, I think you’re aiight.

]]> by: Jenny http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-188 Sat, 27 May 2006 20:38:15 +0000 http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-188 Figures. My first blog-admirer is an effin' demon. Figures. My first blog-admirer is an effin’ demon.

]]> by: Prince Beelezebub http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-187 Sat, 27 May 2006 19:50:29 +0000 http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-187 In a manner of speaking . . . In a manner of speaking . . .

]]> by: Jenny http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-186 Sat, 27 May 2006 04:53:12 +0000 http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-186 Dear Prince B, Are you hitting on me? Sincerely, Jenny Dear Prince B,

Are you hitting on me?

Sincerely,
Jenny

]]> by: Prince Beelzebub http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-185 Sat, 27 May 2006 04:26:05 +0000 http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-185 Steve and Josh, Dearest Jenny, Someone has directed you down quite the wrong path. But don't despair -- I've arrived to help in the Nick of time. Being "effective" is for more important than being creative, challenging or authentic. My dear, you simply have missed the point of religion. Your perspective is obviously driven by a lack of vision for what The Church can become and how you might profit, as a result. My dear, there are myriad opportunities that women so astute (and I suspect fabulous) as you allow pass you by. Pay me a vist, and we might be able to remedy all that. Your friend until The End, PrinceB Steve and Josh,

Dearest Jenny,

Someone has directed you down quite the wrong path. But don’t despair — I’ve arrived to help in the Nick of time.

Being “effective” is for more important than being creative, challenging or authentic. My dear, you simply have missed the point of religion.

Your perspective is obviously driven by a lack of vision for what The Church can become and how you might profit, as a result. My dear, there are myriad opportunities that women so astute (and I suspect fabulous) as you allow pass you by. Pay me a vist, and we might be able to remedy all that.

Your friend until The End,
PrinceB

]]> by: ninjanun http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-176 Wed, 24 May 2006 17:18:57 +0000 http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-176 <i>It’s funny, because in school I was the kid who would say the snarky things the shy kid whispered.</i> YOU! That's it, we can't be friends. [/joking] :) It’s funny, because in school I was the kid who would say the snarky things the shy kid whispered.

YOU!

That’s it, we can’t be friends. [/joking] :)

]]> by: Jenny http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-175 Tue, 23 May 2006 00:03:05 +0000 http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-175 Wow, that's really frustrating, NN. I guess if he didn't even get things right it's a good thing he didn't credit you, though. :) But really -- should we be caring about "credit" when we could be caring about BRINGING PEOPLE TO CHRIST? Though I think your story illustrates that uncited sources can be used to pump up a pastor's ego just as much as anything. I'm sure everyone in the congregation thought he was totally hip and with it. It's funny, because in school I was the kid who would say the snarky things the shy kid whispered. Wow, that’s really frustrating, NN. I guess if he didn’t even get things right it’s a good thing he didn’t credit you, though. :)

But really — should we be caring about “credit” when we could be caring about BRINGING PEOPLE TO CHRIST? Though I think your story illustrates that uncited sources can be used to pump up a pastor’s ego just as much as anything. I’m sure everyone in the congregation thought he was totally hip and with it.

It’s funny, because in school I was the kid who would say the snarky things the shy kid whispered.

]]> by: ninjanun http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-174 Mon, 22 May 2006 23:21:54 +0000 http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-174 You know what cheezes me? My (former) pastor did this all the time: he would argue with the assistant pastor about some theological point (that the assistant pastor knew more about) but by Sunday morning, he was incorporating not only the idea, but the same phraseology into his sermon (without credit). He did this to me a few times, too, once the assistant pastor left (to get his doctorate from Oxford, no less). I noticed he would argue some point of doctrine with me, or even just some "cool lingo" I had used in an e-mail to the worship team, and lo and behold, there it would appear in his sermon (and coming from the mouth of Christ, no less!)! It really grated on my nerves, b/c it was obvious to *me* what he was doing, but I think he truly thought somehow, that idea or phrase had come into his head without any outside influence. And of course, no one else knew what was happening. What's really frustrating is that he never *got* the various arguments we would make concerning some theological point, but he would appropriate the language into his sermon and put his own spin on it--thus, teaching the congregation that some specific phrase had an entirely different meaning than it does for the academic theological sphere. Reminds me of a kid I knew in 6th grade, who sat next to me and would repeat some cut-up remark I had made under my breath out loud to the whole class (he wasn't afraid of getting in trouble like I was). And he would get all the laughs and all the credit. It bugged me, but I had a crush on him at the time, so I let him get away with it. Thanks for letting me vent! ;) You know what cheezes me? My (former) pastor did this all the time: he would argue with the assistant pastor about some theological point (that the assistant pastor knew more about) but by Sunday morning, he was incorporating not only the idea, but the same phraseology into his sermon (without credit). He did this to me a few times, too, once the assistant pastor left (to get his doctorate from Oxford, no less). I noticed he would argue some point of doctrine with me, or even just some “cool lingo” I had used in an e-mail to the worship team, and lo and behold, there it would appear in his sermon (and coming from the mouth of Christ, no less!)! It really grated on my nerves, b/c it was obvious to *me* what he was doing, but I think he truly thought somehow, that idea or phrase had come into his head without any outside influence. And of course, no one else knew what was happening. What’s really frustrating is that he never *got* the various arguments we would make concerning some theological point, but he would appropriate the language into his sermon and put his own spin on it–thus, teaching the congregation that some specific phrase had an entirely different meaning than it does for the academic theological sphere.

Reminds me of a kid I knew in 6th grade, who sat next to me and would repeat some cut-up remark I had made under my breath out loud to the whole class (he wasn’t afraid of getting in trouble like I was). And he would get all the laughs and all the credit. It bugged me, but I had a crush on him at the time, so I let him get away with it.

Thanks for letting me vent! ;)

]]> by: Jenny http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-173 Mon, 22 May 2006 18:25:27 +0000 http://www.steeplesandpeople.com/blog/2006/05/21/pastor-as-plagiarist/#comment-173 Actually, I think I kinda like it when this happens. It has to do with all of us being on the margins. Opposite margins, but margins still, and that gives us something in common. Actually, I think I kinda like it when this happens. It has to do with all of us being on the margins. Opposite margins, but margins still, and that gives us something in common.

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